he perfectly just man must have the things taken away from him to make him seem just, such as his honors, gifts and so forth. On the other hand, let the just man be given the reputation for total injustice, in order for his justice to be tested to see if it is softened by bad reputation and its consequences. Finally, with both men being unchanged until death so when the two men reach the ultimate extreme of both justice and injustice, then we would be able to decide which of the two men were happier. (358e-62c)Glaucon adds to Thrasymachus in that he states that no one is willingly just and they are only compelled to be as such by the situation or condition they are in by nature. Glaucon says that people seek to get the better for themselves and it is good, therefore the lives of the unjust are consequentially better, as they receive more. Glaucon agrees with Thrasymachus in that the way of life of the unjust is better, however, Thrasymachus does not mention the idea of “pleonexia” as seeking to get the better of someone. Glaucon does not even mention the idea, directly, as stated by Thrasymachus as justice being advantageous to the stronger or that justice is high-minded innocence and injustice is good counsel; Glaucon does not touch upon that either. To add, subtract and refute is Thomas Hobbes on the earlier positions of Glaucon and Thrasymachus, respectively. Hobbes states that the justice of persons has to do with the want to do the actions that are just. He goes on to say that one is not really just if they are afraid to do the just actions they would normally do have there no awful consequences to them. One must have a certain nobility of courage to be able to perform their characteristically just actions in any situation, not the ones that are beneficial to them. He adds that these people believe it is beneath them to break their covenant, and that merely justice of actions does not tell one anything about ...
