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platos veiw on lying

platos veiw on lying What is a lie? And when is it appropriate to tell a lie? Are two questions to think about after reading Plato's Republic translated by G.M.A Grube. A lie by definition is a false statement intended to deceive. Most people would agree this is not a "just" thing to do to your friends. In American society today, lying has always been a "bad" thing to do. Trust is very important, parents always tell their kids never to lie or they will loose their trust. Plato disagrees, with what most parents say to their children. He states there are two different kinds of lies, ones that are always improper to tell (True falsehoods). And ones that are suitable to tell against enemies, to prevent something bad happening to a friend, and to make up a story for a point. (Verbal falsehood). In book I of Plato's Republic, when Socrates (speaking for Plato) is discussing what does, "doing the right thing" mean with Cephalus is when the morality of lying is first brought to discussion. Cephalus stated that justice is, speaking the truth and paying debts. Socrates argues and states that," Everyone would surely agree that if a sane man lends weapons to a friend and then asks for them back when he is out of his mind, the friend shouldn’t return them, and wouldn’t be acting justly if he did. Nor should anyone be willing to tell the whole truth to someone who is out of his mind." Socrates thinks that when you are friends with someone than it is just to tell a verbal lie to protect them, which is what a good friend would do. Plato approved of lying when telling the truth is the wrong thing to do. Plato thinks that it is never right or just to do evil or harm to anyone, and if you have to lie to protect someone then it is a just thing to do. In book II Socrates begins to describe his ideal state. In his states there are rulers, the auxiliaries, and the craftsmen. The rulers are the most important and must be brought up with a good moral upbringing. Plato believes that it is necessary to tell the rulers falsehoods in their childhood to have them be gentile to their own people and harmful to their enemies. In order to give them a good moral upbringing Plato states that you need to read them stories about the Gods. But because the ruler can only be subjected to good moral ideas, the evil stories will be overlooked. " Aren't there two kinds of story, one true and the other false?" Socrates states," Yes. And mustn't our men be educated in both, but first in false ones?" Plato thinks that children not be confronted with anything evil until its character is already formed, making the children respect honesty and virtue." The young cant distinguish what is allegorical from what isn't, and the opinions they absorb at that age are hard to erase and apt to become unalternatable. For these reasons, then, we should take the utmost care to insure that the first stories they hear about virtue are the best ones for them to hear." Plato believes that it is proper to tell falsehoods to children because it is preventing them from becoming disrespectful. Because good is coming out, it would be a moral thing to lie in this situation. Plato also thinks this type of verbal falsehood is just because we really don’t know what happened in the past with the Gods, therefore by making the lie as mush like the truth, leaving out the bad, we are making it useful to the children. If the ruler children didn’t hear these falsehoods they would grow up to be cowardly, and afraid of death, making them insufficient leaders for the ideal state. Also in book II Plato explains the conditions in which he does not approve of falsehoods. These lies are called true falsehoods. True falsehoods are when you are," false to ones soul about the things that are, to be ignorant and to have and hold falsehood there, is what everyone would least of all accept, for everyone hates a falsehood in that place most of all." When a lie is always wrong and no kind of good can come out of lying is when it becomes unjust to lie. In book III Plato explains the "noble lie" he is going to tell to the people of his ideal city. The Myth of Metals, he calls it. In the Myth of Metals Plato tells us that All citizens are brothers," Therefore, if anyone attacks the land in which they live, they must plan on its behalf and defend it as their mother and nurse and think of the other citizens as their earthborn brothers. "The myth of Metals also claims that everyone is made up of the same stock, everyone is made up of a metal. The rulers have gold in their veins, the auxiliaries have silver in their veins, and the craftsmen have iron or bronze in their veins. He states that it is possible for gold parents to have silver children and vice versa. If this should happen the child would be placed where they belong because the city would be ruined if some people didn’t do the job they were best at doing. ,"The most important command from the god to the rulers is that there is nothing that they must guard better or watch more carefully than the mixture of metals in the souls of the next generation." This myth was intended to teach the citizens that the gods created them to have a certain job and they would not want to go against the job that they were assigned to. The myth purpose was to increase the citizen's loyalty for the city, because they will think that they were made for a specific purpose. This will prevent the rulers from wanting to be craftsmen and the craftsmen from wanting to be rulers. Plato wanted to make sure that the advantages and disadvantages to belonging to a certain "metal" or class would cancel each other out, making everyone happy. This is also why Plato thinks that this type of lie is befitting to tell. Because the lie has "instrumental value" and because Plato believed that everyone had one natural quality that tell do best, the lie actually resembles the truth making it a verbal lie. I think that Plato is right in some respects and wrong in others. I agree that in one case lying may be beneficial. When you lie to not hurt someone's feelings. Telling a white lie, for example when someone asks if they look fat in this outfit, to not hurt their feelings, if it did make them look fat, it would be alright to lie and say, "oh you look fine." I think lying is ok when it is not about something serious. You gave the girl who thought she was fat some self confidence by saying she looked fine, it was beneficial to her, but yet it wasn’t about a serious matter that you could loose someone's trust over. Trust is a big issue, with all marriages, friendships and even acquaintances. There has to be trust, for anything, and if you break that trust it could bring about a lot of hassles and problems that you normally wouldn’t have to deal with. Even though lying can be good in superficial matters, you have to watch out because lying is contagious, when you say one lie; it brings about another lie. When you have to lie to cover up another lie, is when lying is bad. When you tell a falsehood about something that is serious to someone it can hurt his or her feelings. I think that you are put on this earth to care about others, and to help others. If you lie and loose their trust and hurt them, that is sinful and immoral. I think Plato is wrong in telling the Myth of Metals because he is being a hypocrite. Plato invented a myth to protect his ideal state. In his state he expects people to be honest in their dealing with one another, yet Plato is not being honest with them about what they are really made out of. Reading the first three books to Plato has made me think about a lot of issues, lying being only one. Plato has strong opinions about when it is right and wrong to lie. He thinks that it is appropriate to lie when it is a verbal falsehood, benefiting others and when it is most like the truth. Plato thinks it is inappropriate when it is a true falsehood and there are no rewards. I stated above some of my opinions about Plato's falsehoods but I have not yet come to the conclusion, for myself, when lying is good or bad. Plato's republic has helped me to think about these kinds of issues. Bibliography:

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